tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post5698038285395348649..comments2023-05-28T08:58:51.761-05:00Comments on The Right Side of the Trinity: Testing, Testing: A Route to CoexistenceClay Allardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10126271084869305069noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-20039491992866345322009-02-17T17:14:00.000-06:002009-02-17T17:14:00.000-06:00Toby;"To my mind, the question of the Creation man...Toby;<BR/>"To my mind, the question of the Creation mandate for our sexual behavior is a moral issue that we cannot minimize in the church."<BR/><BR/>Is not divorce a moral issue that we cannot minimize in the church? How have we managed to live with ambiguity in the matter of divorced people, while we cannot live with ambiguity in this issue?Clay Allardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10126271084869305069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-74425869777550031702009-02-14T10:54:00.000-06:002009-02-14T10:54:00.000-06:00No condemnation here, brother!The Lord is always w...No condemnation here, brother!<BR/><BR/>The Lord is always working His will, in and through all events. I have simply not seen a Scriptural teaching that our fellowships should keep us in covenant with those who defy God's clear teachings in the Word. I am being very specific here: I mean covenant fellowships (like denominations), not fellowships in the general sense.<BR/><BR/>Are we to be in relationship with those who differ? Sure! But are we to bind ourselves together, as in a covenanted relationship? I don't see it in the Bible or our confessions.<BR/><BR/>So, yes, denominations will have an admixture of truth and error. But there are levels of error. Some teachings blur the gospel and Jesus' commandments and others are within the bounds of legitimate Christian disagreement.<BR/><BR/>To my mind, the question of the Creation mandate for our sexual behavior is a moral issue that we cannot minimize in the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-64708156854843733382009-02-14T10:39:00.000-06:002009-02-14T10:39:00.000-06:00Toby,I understand. But one question: do not truth...Toby,<BR/>I understand. But one question: do not truth and error always coexist within the church? The pernicious and absurd opinion is that there is no difference between the two.<BR/>I am not saying that there is no difference. I am seeking a way to find time to let the Lord clarify what we are to do in the midst of that difference.<BR/>You perhaps believe that time is up. You may be right, and if you are I will be the first to admit my error. But you, too, may be wrong-- that there is still time to allow the Lord to work through this conflict.<BR/>Again, I am not proposing a fix; I am seeking a way forward together until the Lord clarifies. If you cannot agree to look with me, can you agree not to condemn me for looking?Clay Allardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10126271084869305069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-81597374175814816682009-02-14T08:01:00.000-06:002009-02-14T08:01:00.000-06:00I must respectfully disagree. In this time of conf...I must respectfully disagree. <BR/><BR/>In this time of confusion in our denomination and disintegration of our culture into error and idolatry, any path that leads the church into trying to make contradictory ideologies work together is doomed to failure.<BR/><BR/>If you can show me a Scriptural, confessional argument that truth and error should coexist within the church, at least on so fundamental an issue as human sexuality, then I will recant.<BR/><BR/>For me, the most worshipful and gracious thing that can be proposed is a gracious separation within our denominational house, whether that be in the form of non-geographic "presbyteries of refuge" or in an all-out division of the house.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-30796523523664011892009-02-13T10:30:00.000-06:002009-02-13T10:30:00.000-06:00But, Carol--This is true of the fireaters on both ...But, Carol--<BR/>This is true of the fireaters on both sides-- they not only reject those they see as the "enemy", but those who they see as the enemies' allies.<BR/>This is not new-- what we must do is stand in the midst of those yelling from both sides, and form some kind of prayerful circle that can become a nucleus for who we will become.<BR/>So let's not look at the shouters-- what is necessary for you and me to be part of one circle of prayer? That's what I'm searching for.Clay Allardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10126271084869305069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-10534599645676589342009-02-13T05:45:00.000-06:002009-02-13T05:45:00.000-06:00Clay,This makes a lot of sense. I, too, hope for a...Clay,<BR/><BR/>This makes a lot of sense. I, too, hope for a Presbyterian Church that is big enough for all of us. As someone on the Left, I would very saddened if we could not exist with those on the Right. We have many things to learn from each other.<BR/><BR/>My heavy concern right now is that our divisions have moved beyond whether we accept gays and lesbians themselves. Now we accept or reject people on their <I>position</I> on gays and lesbians. <BR/><BR/>Do you see what I mean? We have moved from a position that affects (I'm guessing) 4% of our membership, to a stance that rejects 50% of our membership. <BR/><BR/>I can't imagine that this is what it means to be the Body of Christ.Carol Howard Merritthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01161717607331881155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5450791468261774394.post-45429898659256599702009-02-12T20:50:00.000-06:002009-02-12T20:50:00.000-06:00I hope this one gets people talking--thank you for...I hope this one gets people talking--thank you for having the courage to suggest that we accept God as God, and watch Him demonstrate His marvelous omnipotence!Elenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12127876454158153535noreply@blogger.com